Mike Baggetta, Stephen Hodges, Mike Watt Defy Conventional Release As Mssv

Mike Watt of mssv perform on stage at The Hideout. Wednesday, April 16, 2025 in Chicago, ILLess

Photo by Barry Brecheisen

Following the release of the album Wall of Flowers in 2019, which found guitarist Mike Baggetta backed by an incredible rhythm section consisting of bassist Mike Watt (Minutemen, fIREHOSE) and drummer Jim Keltner (Bob Dylan), Baggetta hit the road in support of it backed by Watt and the equally terrific Stephen Hodges (Tom Waits, Mavis Staples, David Lynch).

The touring band gelled quickly, with the trio putting a new spin upon the tracks live on stage each night, releasing their debut album Live Flowers as mssv (main steam stop valve) later that year.

“I think by the fifth gig, I had realized that it would be a lot better if I wrote music for the specific people that were playing every night – instead of trying to put music that wasn’t for the same group onto the people that were playing,” Baggetta explained prior to a recent mssv tour stop at The Hideout in Chicago. “Then Watt came up with the band name and here we are six years later.”

mssv’s wonderfully experimental music hits upon everything from jazz to punk, brewing up a stew that’s impossible to pigeonhole. And while there are elements of improvisation, especially on the vinyl edition of the group’s latest release On And On, where the songs on each side run without interruption as a suite, tied together by improvised instrumental moments, Baggetta actually writes most of the parts for his bandmates (while taking on an increasing role as vocalist, further driving the group’s unique storytelling).

Mike Baggetta (left) and Stephen Hodges (right) perform on stage with mssv. Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at The Hideout in Chicago, IL (Photo by Barry Brecheisen)

But the most fascinating part of the mssv story lies in how they go about turning the traditional major label release system on its head by writing the songs prior to the tour, performing – and finetuning – them together each night on stage, ultimately recording the music and releasing the record following the tour, leaving space for the songs to grow en route.

Performing in classic DIY punk rock fashion, the trio recently wrapped up a breakneck U.S. run of 52 shows in 52 days. This Thursday, May 29, 2025, mssv will launch a similarly ambitious 17 date tour of Ireland and the U.K., giving fans a chance to see how the new songs continue to evolve live prior to being recorded.

I spoke with Mike Baggetta, Mike Watt and Stephen Hodges about finding their footing as mssv, constructing On And On (now available on vinyl and for online streaming), their unique system of writing, performing and recording and making a go of it on the road despite inflation and continually increasing expenses. A transcript of our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity, follows below.

Jim Ryan: Once Stephen joined you guys on the road, how quickly did it gel and become its own thing?

Mike Baggetta: I think by the fifth gig, I had realized that it would be a lot better if I wrote music for the specific people that were playing every night – instead of trying to put music that wasn’t for the same group onto the people that were playing. Then Watt came up with the band name and here we are six years later.

Mike Watt: It’s from a book: The Sand Pebbles by Richard McKenna. I didn’t even know there was [a book]. But then, as a boy, it was me and D. Boon’s favorite movie: Steve McQueen in a sailor suit, right? 1966, The Sand Pebbles.

Ryan: Mike, obviously you and Stephen had performed together previously. How did you guys kind of lock in together as the rhythm section in this project?

Watt: Mr. Keltner couldn’t tour. So, it was my suggestion – I had history with Hodge. And the way he did it, man… I thought, yeah – he’s a gel. He’s jelly.

Baggetta: He’s a jelly donut for this situation.

Stephen Hodges: It’s great. I mean, there’s a lot of intensity, you know? And a lot of discussion. We start with a raw framework that Mike B. creates and then everybody jumps in. Watt has a lot of good suggestions and the whole thing develops over time throughout the whole tour. So, it’s great.

Ryan: I listened to the album first and then I started reading about it. I was surprised to learn that the majority of the improvised moments are the instrumental parts that connect each song on each side of the vinyl edition. Mike, how do you go about writing parts with Mike Watt and Stephen in mind?

Baggetta: Well, I’ve been listening to music they’ve played on for decades, like a lot of people. So, I don’t know everything they’re capable of. But I have the sounds that I associate with their playing – the things that I’ve listened to the most – in my head. And I think I have some kind of an idea about something I want to do differently with music. And I try to marry the two together. Sometimes, it’s coming up with something that would be interesting just to hear these guys play. Like I get to have a little fantasy camp thing: “Wow! Wouldn’t it be cool to hear these two guys try to do this sort of song?” And then I write it down and we try it. Like Hodge said, it changes over the course of the tour. That’s why we do the records at the end of the tour. Because, after 50 gigs or something, the music changes into something way more powerful and more interesting with their input than I could have ever come up with alone.

Ryan: It’s been fascinating to discover more about how you guys are turning that entire process on its head. Was it a concerted effort to do that initially – or did you sort of fall into it?

Watt: I love it.

Baggetta: It’s totally on purpose. When I lived in New York City, I got to play with a lot of great musicians. And it was always, you’d rehearse the music, you’d make the record and a year later the record would come out. Then you’d have to relearn your parts and then you play it for two weeks on the road. And, at the end, I’d always go, “Man, we should make the record now. This sounds so much better!” So, I said, “If I ever get the chance to make my music, I’m always gonna play gigs first and then do the record.”

Watt: I love it. I really do. We never got to do it! We always thought of gigs as the main deal – and records were just flyers to get people to the gigs. So, that was turning the industry on its head, right? Because that was always about promoting product for the label, right? With our movement, it was the other way around. But here’s Mike with a third way. Life’s for learning.

Ryan: I was reading an interview you gave, Mike, where you said that most of these songs, because of how prepared you guys are by the time you enter the studio, were recorded in one take…

Watt: It’s like a gig in front of the mics, right? Like this 52 gig tour? Well, that’s gig 53.

Ryan: Doing it like that – and maybe practicing isn’t necessarily the word but rehearsing these songs night after night like that, how do they grow and evolve from what you wrote to what you record after playing them together 50 nights in a row?

Baggetta: It’s practice. But I’ll give you a real solid example. The other night, Hodge was supposed to put a kick drum somewhere – but he decided to move it onto beat four. And we liked it better. So, now that’s the arrangement, you know? So, now it stays there instead of the other way around. Things like that, I would never write on my own – because I don’t know drums and bass that well.

Watt: Can I tell you a little something about it? When the gig’s done, there’s something called the debriefing. On the way to the conk pad, Mike runs over the f–ing show! So, it’s not reading the same script, or the setlist I guess. But they springboard! And then he’s hearing it in real life in front of gig goers.

Baggetta: Things change.

Ryan: I love the idea with the On And On vinyl – that it’s a whole different listening experience than the streaming edition. I know that happened organically. But does it seem important to have these two different products and really give people a reason to purchase the vinyl?

Baggetta: Well, I mean it’s good to have people buy this stuff for sure. But I think it’s also kind of a statement on the streaming thing and an attention span. The whole point of this record is there’s sort of this underlying thread of like continuity and the universe. And I don’t want to get too metaphysical but you can’t really do that if you’re streaming a song for three minutes and then Britney Spears comes on right away. So, maybe there’s something to coax people into sitting down for 20 minutes at a time and listening to sort of a complete program. How do you get people to listen to a symphony when it’s like random shuffle on streaming and they’re walking down the street talking to people on the phone and Spotify’s going or whatever kind of nonsense?

Ryan: I was listening to the new songs that you are playing but have yet to record. How are they shaping up so far?

Watt: You’re gonna hear it [tonight] like one tune. You know my operas like I did with Hodge? There’s no breaks. We play it like one song. So, Contemplating the Engine Room or The Secondman’s Middle Stand or Hyphenated-man – that’s where Mike B. first heard me and Hodge.

Baggetta: Engine Room was a big touchstone for me. I heard it in my 20s. And I was having this idea about how do you make music that can incorporate all different kinds of music – but still have the sound of a band? How do you have a band that doesn’t limit itself? And then I heard Engine Room. And I thought, “Oh… they’ve done it!” So, hearing that record? It flipped a switch in me. I said, “Oh, this is possible! I can do this.” And that’s a big deal for me that they’re willing to work on my music like that still.

Ryan: We hear these stories about how hard it’s becoming amidst inflation – gas, hotels, everything costs more – to tour. You guys are doing 52 shows in 52 nights. Are you able to make a go of it by applying that classic DIY approach?

Watt: This is my 72nd tour. Working with these guys? I learned from Black Flag. They did 100 gig tours! We’re sissies!

Baggetta: That’s totally what it is. I learned so much from Watt and Hodges on the way to do this.

Watt: He booked it.

Baggetta: I kind of had a way of doing it. I booked it all myself. And I’ve been doing that on and off for a while. But, you know, mssv doesn’t have assistant hair techs. We don’t have lighting guys. We don’t have hotels or a bus. So, if you watch your costs, and you are smart about not taking days off and not wasting money, you can do it no problem.

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