Both President Donald Trump and socialist President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil confirmed on Monday that they shared a phone call to discuss the deterioration of diplomatic relations between their countries, a result of Lula’s persecution of conservatives in the country.
Trump described the call as “very good” and enjoyable, while Lula said it took on a “friendly tone” and lasted about 30 minutes – a major departure from the public condemnations of Trump from Lula in the past. The statement from Planalto, the Brazilian presidential palace, indicated that Trump reached out to Lula. In the past year, Lula has referred to Trump as a “liar,” accused him of supporting “anti-democratic” forces without evidence, and fantasized about imprisoning him.
“If President Trump had done here in Brazil what he did in the Capitol, he would also be judged because here there is justice for everyone,” Lula told the BBC in September, holding Trump responsible for the January 6 Capitol riot.
The American president nonetheless stated in a post on his website, Truth Social, that he would soon meet Lula in person, including in Brazil – suggesting Trump would visit the country in the near future. Lula visited the United States in late September to address the United Nations General Assembly, where he also briefly exchanged greetings with Trump.
The focus of the call, both presidents confirmed, was the restoration of a functional economic relationship between the two countries. In response to Lula’s persecution of conservatives – and in particular the imprisonment of former President Jair Bolsonaro, sentenced to 27 years in prison on dubious “coup” charges – President Trump signed an executive order in July declaring Brazil a “national security threat” to the United States due to its top court, the Supreme Federal Tribunal (STF), demanding American tech companies silence opinions unsavory to the left-wing government. The executive order also imposed a 50-percent tariff rate on Brazilian imports into America.
In addition to the tariffs, the U.S. government sanctioned Alexandre de Moraes, the most powerful judge on the STF, personally for his role in enacting violent “fake news” police raids against conservative politicians and commentators.
Trump did not specify that human rights was a topic of conversation between the two on Monday, though he did not list every topic raised in the call.
“This morning, I had a very good telephone call with President Lula, of Brazil. We discussed many things, but it was mostly focused on the Economy, and Trade, between our two Countries,” Trump wrote. “We will be having further discussions, and will get together in the not too distant future, both in Brazil and the United States. I enjoyed the call — Our Countries will do very well together!”
Prior to Lula’s third term in office, which began in 2022, Brazil and the United States enjoyed over 200 years of friendly relations. Lula’s antagonism towards Trump has deteriorated relations to their worst-ever state, according to many experts.
Like Trump, Lula’s team published a statement describing the phone call on Monday as positive.
“President Lula described the contact as an opportunity to restore the friendly relations of 201 years between the two largest democracies in the West,” the Planalto statement read, adding that Lula requested that Trump lift the 40-percent punitive tariff on his country linked to human rights abuses, leaving tariffs at ten percent, about the same rate with most of America’s other largest trade partners.
Lula’s office also confirmed that Trump had tasked Secretary of State Marco Rubio with leading negotiations with Brazil to normalize bilateral relations; Lula tasked his vice president, Geraldo Alckmin, with leading the team. Alckmin, speaking to reporters shortly after the phone call, said that Lula’s government was “very optimistic” about fixing the U.S. relationship after the phone call, describing the conversation as “better than we expected.”
Fernando Haddad, Lula’s economic minister and the losing candidate to Bolsonaro in the 2018 presidential election, announced on Tuesday that he would soon travel to the United States for various unrelated engagements, such as the G20 summit and World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) events, but hoped to meet with senior American officials while in town.
“There is an expectation of some bilateral talks in these meetings, now with this rapprochement since the meeting at the U.N. may be that we find space for a new conversation with [Treasury Secretary] Scott Bessent,” he said in a recent interview, adding, “I do not know if it will happen.”
Haddad insisted, however, that the Lula administration would not “change strategy,” suggesting Lula would continue to be belligerent and rude to Trump, which has been his strategy since Trump returned to office in January.
The phone call appeared to have been made possible by Lula and Trump briefly meeting at the United Nations. Brazil traditionally speaks first at the General Assembly, followed by the host of the event, the United States, so the two interacted as Lula left the stage and Trump assumed it.
Lula used his speech to attack President Trump’s policies without naming him directly, claiming that conservative leaders around the world were empowering “attacks on sovereignty, arbitrary sanctions, and unilateral interventions.” Lula in particular condemned “unilateral and arbitrary measures against our institutions and our economy,” an apparent reference to the U.S. tariffs, as “interference in domestic affairs.”
Trump’s address to the United Nations did not directly address Brazil. Despite Lula’s words on the stage, Trump described his personal exchange with Lula positively.
“We had a good talk, and we agreed to meet next week,” Trump said of his exchange with Lula on September 23. “He seemed like a very nice man … At least for about 39 seconds, we had excellent chemistry.”
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